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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Laundry Appliance Repair Forum > 110.96595520 Kenmore electric dryer |
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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Laundry Appliance Repair Forum > 110.96595520 Kenmore electric dryer |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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OK, this is one of those dryers with the electronic control pad on top -- everything's a touch control and it looks like you could land a UFO with it. Electric, front load, lint screen at bottom of door. Here's what it did and what it still does: Select any setting and time and hit START button. When you hit the start button, there is an audible click. Everything lights up like it's working. The timer counts down properly. The 'drying' indicator lights, so it even thinks it's doing its job. Alas, there is no tumble. I popped the kick board and found that the belt was intact and properly threaded (the belt iis 2 months old -- replaced at same time as drum wheels). The motor, however, was not turning. Here's what I've checked and replaced thus far: I have checked the voltage at the wall: 240V. I have checked the voltage at the dryer block: 240V. I have checked the power cord and its connections: good. I have checked the door switch (yes, I removed it first): good. I have checked the thermal fuse, post-removal: good. I have NOT checked the thermistor next to it (have no clue how I'd get it to 196 degrees). I have checked the relays next to the control board: good. I have inspected the control board for burned-out components or scorching/burning: negative. I have replaced the motor and verified that I did not screw up on the wiring (the replacement is not an exact dupe of the original): does not fire up. I removed the broken belt switch and tested it: good. I bypassed the broken belt switch and tried to get the new motor to turn: does not turn. I purchased a replacement idler wheel but did not replace it -- the tension looks fine and the original is not wobbly. Tonite, I decided to work backwards a bit. I checked the voltage across pins 2 & 6 on the power harness for the motor, and I measured 89 V. So I figure I know why the old and new motors aren't turning -- not enough juice. Can anyone give me some clue what to check next? I'm stumped and my girlfriend is NOT pleased that I'm not anxious to replace this dryer. It's sort of like an old friend that hasn't ever given me any trouble I couldn't fix....until now. Thanks! |
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NCSU_laundry_tech Sublime Master of Appliantology 
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at the main board there is a way to ohm the whole motor circuit. should get 1 to 6 ohms. if you do then you need a new board. if not then you got to find the restriction of the electron flow |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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marvinmartian wrote: ... I decided to work backwards a bit. I checked the voltage across pins 2 & 6 on the power harness for the motor, and I measured 89 V. So I figure I know why the old and new motors aren't turning -- not enough juice... that's not backwards... that's where you should have started ... I can't find a wiring diagram for that model.. unless you could scan & upload your ... 200k MAX |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Here's the schematic from inside the kick panel. Sorry for the delay; work's been crazy. There's another image of the edge connector schematic. I'll post that separately to avoid the size restriction. And you're right, this is where I should have started! Thanks for your help. Attachment: DryerSchematic_480.jpg (Downloaded 39 times) |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Here's the edge connector schematic. Attachment: DryerEdgeConnectorSchematic_480.jpg (Downloaded 39 times) |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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marvinmartian wrote: ... I checked the voltage across pins 2 & 6 on the power harness for the motor, and I measured 89 V...Was that voltage measurement with the Motor connected ? (all voltage measurements should be with the device connected, unless otherwise specified) It should have ran or hummed .. You could try swaping the (2) Relays You measured the 240v supply... did you also check for the 120v ? (Neutral) Last edited on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 11:21 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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No, I pulled the harness and just checked the voltage at those pins - motor was not connected. Didn't realize it would matter - I'll go connect the motor and measure again and let you know something in about 2 minutes. Also, the other reply I got suggested that there was a way to check the entire motor circuit's resistance somehow. Any chance you (or anyone else) could dumb that down enough for me to know where to put the meter leads? As for the relays, I didn't swap them out because mine don't appear to be identical. Thanks! |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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marvinmartian wrote: I'll go connect the motor and measure again and let you know something in about 2 minutes...0v ? Relays should be the same (remember the wiring order) |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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I bow to you, Master.... The voltage across 2 & 6 is 89V "at rest" - when the dryer is plugged in but no options have been chosen. After I made a selection and hit Start, there was an audible click, and the voltage flowed across 2 & 6 at a steady 247V. I tried this same test with the replacement motor connected, and then with just the harness -- same result each time. When the motor was connected, it still did not turn. Does the idler need to be engaged in order for the motor to turn? This one has a broken belt switch at the back of the motor, and I wasn't putting any pressure on the idler (the drum and belt are out of the unit) when I was testing. Thanks. |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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No hum and no spin from the motor with tension on the idler, either. I'll go check those relays next and see if they're the same. If they aren't, I'll get a pic for you. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Where are you measuring this voltage ?... should be at the Motor |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Yes, measured at the motor. |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Relays are not the same. Motor relay label is as follows: OMRON G4W - 11123T - US - 6010 12VDC CONTACT: 15A 250VAC 1/2HP - 125VAC 15A 24VDC 1 HP - 250VAC COIL: 12VDC 0824Y2 What is the proper method to test this relay (since I don't appear to have another one like it I can swap it out with -- the other relay is much larger and made by a different manufacturer)? |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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RegUS_PatOff wrote: ... You measured the 240v supply... did you also check for the 120v ? (Neutral) Motor should have 0v at rest, and never more than 120v running .. |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Sorry, I don't understand your last post. There's power to the motor. There are separate pins for 110 vs 240 on the motor. This one uses 2 & 6, which get 240V. If there's not supposed to be any voltage across 2 & 6 at rest, what can cause that to happen? And please dumb it down for me, because I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be some continuous voltage through the unit -- the interior light comes on when the door opens. Uses voltage. There's a fluorescent lamp under the console panel -- that would require voltage, too. Sorry if I sound dense, but I don't follow the logic that the resting voltage would be 0. The only way for me to check the voltage with the motor as part of the circuit is to attach the power harness and get my meter leads into the openings for pins 2 & 6 on the harness while it's on the motor. That's all I can do, as the harness completely obscures the pins on the motor. Maybe that's why I'm not getting the result you're expecting. I'm open to suggestions for a workaround. I checked on PartsDirect to look at the exploded view of the console. The parts listing says there are indeed two 12V relays (#696819). I can only find one of them. It was located near one end, adjacent to what I thought was the power relay (that's why I thought they were different). Can you give me some clue where to find the 2nd 12V relay? It's not clear from the exploded view, either. I can post that exploded view if you'd like. Thanks. |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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I've attached a pic of the only two relays I can find in my dryer. Obviously, they're different. Is there a second relay somewhere in my dryer that is identical to the smaller Omron pictured here. If there is, I can't find it. And the schematic I posted earlier isn't clear to me in regard to the Motor Relay vs the Heat Relay. If there IS a second relay, should it be visible from the back of the unit? If so, I don't see it. I've tried following the CH and CH2 wires off of the control board -- they go to the same relay as CM and CM2. Color me confused. Could someone please clear this up for me and keep the explanation as simple as possible? RegUS_PatOff, can you please give me the steps to perform the 110 test at the motor you mentioned previously? Thanks. Attachment: DryerRelays_640.jpg (Downloaded 29 times) |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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marvinmartian wrote: ...The voltage across 2 & 6 is 89V "at rest" - when the dryer is plugged in but no options have been chosen. According to the schematic, and as with almost all U.S. Dryers, the Motor only uses 120v ... L1 and Neutral L2 does not connect to the Motor The Drum Lamp is also 120v If there is 89v there at rest, it would run or hummm. If there was 240v there, it would burn-out shortly... |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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This leads me to what will probably sound like a really stupid question. If the motor only runs at 120V, why is my dryer powered by 240V? What's the point to devoting a separate 240 line to it? If the motor can't use 240, why are there two leads devoted to carrying it thru the wiring harness? In audio, we have "step-down" transformers. Isn't that what the motor should be doing with the incoming 240V? OK, that's more than one stupid question, but I'm feeling like a very slow learner right about now. Thanks again. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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as shown in the Wiring Diagram, the Heater uses 240v, but everything else uses 120v (one of the power lines and Neutral) |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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All of my manuals (and the tech sheets that were inside the console) are in storage, where I may never again find them. Can you tell me how to put this dryer into diagnostic mode? Thanks. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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I can't find any documentation for that model... |
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Budget Appliance Repair Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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marvinmartian wrote: This leads me to what will probably sound like a really stupid question. Ok, some training for ya!!!! You only need 120 volts to power the control board, run the motor and power the drum lamp and console light tube. This dryer has an electric heating element and it takes the 240 volts to power the heating element. Now to your testing and why your getting 247 volts at pins 2 and 6 is because you are testing at the wrong pins, (pins 1 and 2 on the motor is the centrifugal switch which closes when the motor is running so the heater doesn't come on unless the motor is actually running). The 89 volts you are getting when it's not running is junk voltage reading from line2 to the open contact at pin 6. Don't worry about pins 1 and 2. You should be doing your test at pin 4(Line1) and pin 5(Neutral to motor), pin 4 may not actually be in the motor connector plug, it will be the blue wire coming off the belt switch going directly to the thermal overload protector on the motor. To test and make sure the motor is ok you can attach it directly to a test cord, (an old appliance cord with alligator clips or spade connectors), attach one end to pin 4 or the overload protector and the other to pin 5 and plug the cord in to a wall socket. If the motor is ok it will start and run. You say you checked the door switch, are you sure you checked it correctly?? There are two circuits in the door switch, one circuit is neutral to the motor or when door is open, neutral to drum lamp. The other circuit is the low voltage door switch that the board uses to sense that the door is closed. Any chance you have D2 & D3 to the door switch reversed so that when the door is closed the light comes on instead of going out? Does the drum light come on when you open the door? You say you checked the thermal fuse? Did you check the white plastic one on the blower next to the thermistor or the one on the heater next to the hi-limit safety t-stat? If you have the door switch wiring correct, and have double checked that the thermal fuse is ok and the motor works ok on a test cord, there is a good chance the motor control relay is bad or the control board itself. With everything put back together and with the control board counting down the time but motor not running you will need to see if you have 12 volts DC to the relay coil on the motor relay. If 12 VDC is present at the relay coil then you have a bad motor relay, if no 12 VDC is present then most likely a bad control board. |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Willie, I can't thank you enough for the explanation and the clear instructions. I'll tear into the dryer again tomorrow afternoon and try to post what I find in the evening. As for how I tested the door switch, I did a simple continuity check with the switch removed from the dryer, and that's all. I'll follow your directions to re-test it. I'll also check to make sure I haven't reversed the wires. Not sure my drum light is going to serve as much of indicator -- it has only worked when it felt like it for about the past 10 years. Again, THANK YOU. I'll post back. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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one more thing... Test devices while they're still connected, don't remove items to test (unless specified) The Door Switch may be good when it's not mounted in the Dryer, but if the Door Latch Mechanism isn't actuating the Switch, the Dryer won't work. You'd have to test the Door Switch while it's still mounted in the machine ... Motor only uses 120v... I was looking at the Motor Wiring on the Diagram I usualy test by Wire Color (not numbers) There is a Switch on the Motor that controls the Heater, so that it only operates while the Drum Motor is turning... but I wasn't concerend with that part of the circuit, and those wires don't connect to the Motor Winding, nor would they prevent the Motor from running. |
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telefunkenu47 Master Appliantologist
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how about jumping out the motor relay? Thats where i would start. My money is on the relay. Just a thought... |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Hi again, Willie. Sorry about the delay. I got very, very sick and wasn't able to do anything for about 2 weeks. The girlfriend has resumed the glares now that I'm well again. All's right with the world. To answer your question about the possibility of the wires being crossed on pins 2 & 3 of the door switch, I checked, and they appear to match the wiring diagram. My interior light does come on when the door is open (most of the time, anyway) and I verified that it goes out with the door shut. With the dryer plugged in and counting down but no motor spinning, I checked the voltage across pins 2 & 3. There's 120V across them when the light is on (door open) and 0V across them when the light is off (door closed). I tried the AC cord trick on pins 4 & 5 of the old motor -- nothing. I'm about to try the same thing on the new motor -- just need to rip everything apart again in order to get to it. I checked for 12V across the motor relay coil with the dryer powered up and counting down but no It tested fine, but I ordered in a new one, anyway. Next I'll check to make sure I can get the new motor to spin from the AC cord. If that works as expected, I'll check the voltage hitting the motor from the harness and make sure there's 120 flowing thru it. I'll post back later this evening when I have the other results. Thanks for your patience and your advice! |
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marvinmartian Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Hi again, Willie. I have some results, but they're strange enough that I'm thinking I may have done something wrong with my testing again. First, the good news (sort of). The new motor spun just fine with voltage applied to pins 4 & 5. Then I realized what you had been trying to tell me about the blue wire coming around from the broken belt switch and I changed the position of one of the wires from the AC cord, and voila!....the old motor spun up, too. So the motor wasn't the problem (I can hear all you seasoned repair guys snickering). So I guess the problem has been identified: regardless of which motor I have in the dryer, it's not getting enough juice to spin. So I came up with the following to test it, and I need to know if the test I ran is actually telling me anything useful. I reconnected all the dryer wiring, but I didn't put the drum back in the dryer. I plugged my meter leads into #4 and #5 on the wiring harness. The harness was NOT connected to the motor -- I just wanted to see what kind of voltage I was getting across 4 & 5 when the dryer was supposedly running. I held the door switch in with my finger. The voltage was 45.6V across 4 & 5 with the door switch open. The voltage varied between 39V & 42V across 4 & 5 with the door switch closed and the dryer on with the timer running. Is this test sufficient to prove that there isn't proper power getting to the motor thru the harness? If so, what are the chances it's the harness that's bad? I went ahead and replaced the motor relay. Made no difference. If the test I described isn't logically sound, please advise how best to check the voltage hitting the motor thru 4 & 5. I don't have the physical space to reassemble the drum and still have room to maneuver. And I can't figure out a way to get the meter leads to stay put if I connect the harness to the motor. If I did connect it, I'd need to be able to reach in and pull up on the tensioner to engage the motor. That would mean I couldn't hold the meter leads in place, and there's just no place to put 'em where they'll make contact and stay put. I'll wait to hear back from you before I do anything else. Thanks! |
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Budget Appliance Repair Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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I'm I correct in reading that you did check and see that you were getting 12vdc to the motor relay coil? If yes, then next is to pull both wires off that motor relay and start the dryer and get it to the mode were it it counting down and should be running. Then with the meter set to the ohm setting check for continuity across the two terminals on the motor relay that you pulled the wires from. If you are getting continuity across these terminals then shut the dryer down and make sure they then show open. If this all works ok then most likely you have a break in the wiring harness somewhere. Check each of those motor wires, (4 and 5), to a good ground point on the cabinet. If you then see 110volts on wire#4 when checking to ground, (zero volts on wire#5), then you are loosing the neutral somewhere, (the low voltage readings of around 40volts would also seem to indicate that possibility. If you see the 110volts on wire#4 then check with your meter set on ohm's and check the neutral wire#5 at the motor to D3 at the door switch, then with the door switch closed to the neutral connection of the power cord. I also went back to your first post and notice you said you check the power at the back of the dryer and had 220volts as required, but I don't see any mention of you checking each leg to the center post, (neutral), for 110volts on each leg to neutral. There is a possibility that you have lost the neutral connection in the breaker box or at the wall plug. Last edited on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 11:54 am by Budget Appliance Repair |
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telefunkenu47 Master Appliantologist
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Ive seen this movie! Check line 1 to neutral at the terminal block while pushing the start button. Ill bet my paycheck that the voltage drops dow to 60 or so volts. Now go check it out and tell me Im wrong! |
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kdog Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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marvinmartian wrote: All of my manuals (and the tech sheets that were inside the console) are in storage, where I may never again find them. Pretty much defeats the purpose of puttin 'em there to begin with  |
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