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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > Bosch SMU 4000 dishwasher gets stuck in cycle |
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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > Bosch SMU 4000 dishwasher gets stuck in cycle |
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| Moderated by: RegUS_PatOff, Pegi | ||
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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So I've got a 10 year old Bosch SMU 4000 series dishwasher (I don't have the exact model number at the moment but could find it if necesssary). About a year or so ago, it started getting stuck during the cycle, sometimes in 1, sometimes in 2 places. After talking with a Bosch tech person about it on the other end of an 800 number, I decided to replace the timer, which I bought through repairclinic.com. The dishwasher worked great for about 2 months. Then it started sticking at the same place in the cycle (the rinse cycle). I have to manually forward the dial to get the washer to complete. Just within the past week it has started pausing for about a minute between the cycles, but advancing to the next one--except the rinse cycle, of course, which it sticks at forever. In addition, the pump at the beginning of the cycle sometimes is not triggered by the dial, and I have to turn off the power, spin the dial around to the same spot, turn the power back on, and see if the pump activates. It takes a couple or three tries. This problem started a couple of months ago, but is slowly progressing so that it takes more tries for it to "kick in" when the dial reaches the correct spot. All of these problems seem to me to be connected to the dial, and thus, the timer. However, I just read the FAQ answer on this website about a Bosch dishwasher that was getting stuck during a cycle, so perhaps that's going on too. But if so, why did changing the timer make the machine work well for a short period of time? Also, where do I find that motherboard? Is it easy to pop in and out? How do I replace bad solder if I do find a burnt out spot? Could the soldering job on the timer be bad? Thanks for any and all help. --Dan |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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FlatlandDan wrote: ... (I don't have the exact model number at the moment but could find it if necesssary)...yes |
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man Fermented Grand Master of Appliantology 
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This is *usually* a problem with the heating circuit. Suspects include a burnt relay solder joint on the control board, open heater, open heater temp sensor. Can also measure current draw a few minutes after starting a cycle-- if the heater's working, you'll be drawing about 11 amps, otherwise, about 1.2 amps. Will need your ezzact model number to get into 'pacifics. |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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OK, so I got the model wrong. It's SHU4002UC. The info was not legible on the label--why on earth is that on a spot that gets exposed to heat and occasional moisture? I had to dig the number out of a dusty file in the barn. That took longer than any repair will, I'm sure. Also, I should mention that the dishwasher is as hot as it ever was, which is plenty hot. Last edited on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 07:35 am by FlatlandDan |
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man Fermented Grand Master of Appliantology
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I'd pull apart that control board and check for the infamous burnt solder joint at the power relay. I'm away from the office till tomorrow late night. Maybe Reg or one of the other fine masters will PM you the download link for the manual. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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BOSCH_Dishwasher_training_1 Service Manual PM'd |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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Hello-- I've sent an email, but thought I'd post the next step here. I don't have a control board (I think) in my unit. There's an electromechanical timer, cycle control, and on/off buttons. I've got photos that show what I've got, but don't see a way to post them using the quick reply. Anyway, does that indeed rule out a burnt relay? |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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FlatlandDan wrote: ... I don't have a control board (I think) in my unit. There's an electromechanical timer yes... It could be a bad Heating Element (does it heat at all ?) or f4 THERMOSTAT 161F or f5 HIGH LIMIT 185F as shown on PDF page 116 & 117 Last edited on Mon Jun 29th, 2009 08:26 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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The dishwasher heats great, as far as I can tell. Do the pages you reference apply to our model, no. SHU4002UC? Also, looking at P118 of the PDF (actually labeled 116 on the document itself), it appears as if the dishwasher is "sticking" in timer position 43 or 44. We have to manually turn it to get to the drain motor position, no 45. How would I test the low/high limits of the water temp? Or is it more likely a sensor issue? Thanks for any and all help... Dan |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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as shown on PDF page 116 & 117 edited previous message ... If you have a Harbor Freight store near you click on picture $ 2.99  |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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At the point where the dishwasher is sticking, the water temp is 170F. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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I think this is the part number: #168575 60C 141F Thermostat f3 would seem to be "open" click on picture  Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:11 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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Thanks! I'll try it. On page 66 of the manual it says that the thermostat can't be accessed through the front panel. Does the dishwasher have to be laid on its side to get there from the bottom? Or is that whole assembly, shown on P 22, accessed from the inside somehow? Also, is there another part that may be respnsible, like the NTC, that I could replace as long as I have the machine open? The price of the parts is low compared to the grief of opening it up, as well as the cost of a new machine. Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 04:33 pm by FlatlandDan |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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They're talking about f5 the Hi-Limit (185ºF) thermostat ... I don't know where 141F f4 is located |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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I sure don't! I found this document online http://perrywilliams.com/cooperative/bosch/TrbleTips.pdf If I read it correctly--not a sure thing by any stretch--then the f4 thermostat is part of the NTC probe. What do you think? |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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I have that manual .. but it's not for your model nuumber .. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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f3 #2 in diagram Attachment: P9060231-00004.png (Downloaded 20 times) Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:47 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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Great. How would you access it? From the exterior, below? |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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FlatlandDan wrote: ... dishwasher is "sticking" in timer position 43 or 44. We have to manually turn it to get to the drain motor position, no 45... I don't work on Bosch Another thought I think I posted the f3 Thermostat, but it could be f3 OR f4 could be bad... Bosch Diagrams %$*&%(*%$ If it's stopping at Timer Chart 45, it would seem to be bad Timer Contacts 8a (bypasses Thermostats) (unless the Timer is mechanically binding on something ) Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:58 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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The timer is only a few months old...we replaced it last fall with one from repaircenter.com. I think the timer is stopping at 43 or 44...but it's hard to say because there's no diagram showing exactly where the numbers correspond with the dial on the face of the machine. What number in the diagram you posted is f4? The cost of the parts is low enough that I'd replace whatever MIGHT be a culprit vs. go in there more than once. Would that include f5? |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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It would be better to do some voltage tests when the Timer stops .. |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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Another idea: I realized that the f4 thermostat (I found it via a diagram from repairclinic.com) isn't connected to anything. It has 2 prongs and a slot on one end, like it should go somewhere in particular. The diagram from repaircenter.com shows the thermostat floating to the right of the dispenser unit, but it doesn't show where it goes. But it stands to reason that it wouldn't trip unless it's in close proximity to the heated water. My question is where the heck does it go? Attachment: Thermostat.jpg (Downloaded 18 times) |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology 
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it goes here, that white dot is thermal conductive paste. If it is in place and doesnt trip, look for poor water circulation inside the dishwasher. Attachment: Capture.JPG (Downloaded 16 times) |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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Does the copper clip serve a purpose? And can I use electrical tape to keep it in place to test it? Or use a multimeter to check for resistance? If so, what should measurements be? Or is there a safe way to bypass this thermostat to test it? UPDATE: I figured out where it went...would still like to know about testing. Thanks! Last edited on Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 01:46 am by FlatlandDan |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology
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if i recall the clip slides in between the dispenser and the door to hold the thermostat firmly against the door. to test if its the thermostat you should verify the inner door gets as hot as the rating on the thermostat. if it gets that hot but doesnt trip then its a thermostat problem. if it doesnt get hot enough then you have a water heating/circulation problem. |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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Are the thermostats directional? If I reverse the contacts, will it make a difference? |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology
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nope its like a switch, either open or closed. |
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FlatlandDan Apprentice Appliantologist, First Class
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I put that thermostat back into place (still no glue, but bent it slightly to make good contact with the metal above the soap dispenser) and THE DISHWASHER WORKED. It went all the way through the cycle. Incredible. So it looks like the thermostat, by coming loose or being dislodged from it's spot on the door caused the cycle sticking problem, just as if it had failed. Hopefully this problem is solved. Thank you! Last edited on Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 06:48 am by FlatlandDan |
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