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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 21:50 |
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Model GLTF1040AS0, Frigidaire Gallery , front load washer
S/N XC40721572
New in 2004, speed control replaced under factory recall at that time.
Now Ike came through and put the power on and off several times, washer stopped moving the drum, no agitate and no spin cycles.
Water pumps in and out, door locks with indicator on.
Machine was not ON, but plugged in at the time of power outages.
Power was on/off about three times in a row within 10 minute period.
Opened washer, followed diagnostic procedure on paperwork and found speed control with blown fuse, replaced speed control with new unit from link to repairclinic.com as it said.
While waiting on speed control, removed timer and checked all contacts for burns or sticking etc. Everything looked fine and lifted each contact blade to make sure none were welded together. Also checked blades in connectors both plug and timer side......put the timer back in.
After new speed control was installed, washer filled and started to agitate so left it for the full cycle... came back to find the timer had not moved from where I left it at start of regular cycle.
Next checks for no timer run in the Electrolux service repair manual flow chart (repairclinic.com) show end result of either a bad speed control, or bad timer... since I just put in a new speed control, any reason for me to open it back up and do the voltage drop tests?
Or just go ahead and order a timer?
Have not been here since the old site, is there still a place to upload photos of repairs etc. ? Or just do as attachments only?
Tom
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RegUS_PatOff
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 22:12 |
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The Motor Speed Control Board controlls the Timer Motor (at times)
You could check the voltage at the Timer Motor.
If there's voltage there and the Timer Motor is not moving ......
(a little late)
Tumble Action Washers with AC Drive Motor (5995369211)
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 22:37 |
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DOH! Glad the service manual was only $9 ! but could have printed the PDF for under a buck. At least RepairClinic.com got the money, great service once again from them. Although it could have been added to the beer fund here instead.
I'll check the voltage at the timer motor, at least I can just pop the top off for now, since I buttoned it all back up as a show of confidence in the new speed controller. It's that "AT TIMES" line that throws a wrench in the works..
I also have the bad habit of putting my tools away before I'm finished with them.
Both timer motor wires are on top when mounted.. did see paperwork refer to pinouts on the timer for checks, but never saw anywhere that showed what pins where what numbers, sure not on the timer, unless it's that odd sticker with the ++++s, but it didn't make much sense at first look.
Always hard for me to just buy a new part, I'm the type that feels the old part can be repaired one way or another... like this timer that should not cost more than $50 new IMHO, but lists for $100.+
Thanks for the reply,
Tom
Attachment: timer.JPG (Downloaded 120 times) Last edited on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 22:58 by Will B. Fixed
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 15:02 |
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Okay, found no real shortcut to check those power inputs to the timer with only the top of washer off.. they are not in a good place to probe with meter leads with line voltage applied. All plugs and wires in place with no signs of a problem.
BUT...back to my original question, the diagnostic flow chart at the bottom of page 47, under " timer does not advance" ends with only two things that could be faulty..
The speed control OR the timer
Since I just replaced the speed control with new one to even get it to tumble, isn't it a safe bet that the timer is bad now ?
Or do you get many defective new speed controls ?
Thanks,
Tom
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 15:18 |
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since I just put in a new speed control,
Other than the replacement under recall in 2004, have you replaced the board since then? If not, then given your power outage scenario (and that you probably weren't using a surge suppressor on your washer) then the board is still the prime suspect.
found no real shortcut to check those power inputs to the timer with only the top of washer off.. they are not in a good place to probe with meter leads with line voltage applied.
Use the wiring diagram to locate the other end of the timer supply wires at the speed control board and make your measurements there.
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RegUS_PatOff
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 16:07 |
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The Timer Motor sometimes gets it's Neutral line from the Speed Control Board, other times, it connects itself to the Neutral line.
During the dashed lines, it conects itself to the Neutral, and should run unless the Timer Motor is bad.
Attachment: 131854700B.PNG (Downloaded 113 times)
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 16:14 |
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man wrote:
Other than the replacement under recall in 2004, have you replaced the board since then? If not, then given your power outage scenario (and that you probably weren't using a surge suppressor on your washer) then the board is still the prime suspect.
Yes, I just replaced the speed control yesterday with a new unit from Repairclinic.com, and that got the tumble action back but timer will not run and can't get spin action even moving knob to "spin" by hand. My wife points out that when she tried to use the washer after the storm, the timer ran very fast and went through the whole run in about a minute. I realize that the speed control has some control over the timer movement, but thought I'd mention that.
Use the wiring diagram to locate the other end of the timer supply wires at the speed control board and make your measurements there.
Understood, and will do that as soon as I have time, but point was to try and spot possible bad timer through use of experienced repair persons here in the forum rather than pull the washer back out and apart, I realize that it's not that hard a job to tear down, but since seeing the flow chart that points to a bad timer now, wanted some thoughts other than my own. Thanks for the reply..
Last edited on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 16:18 by Will B. Fixed
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Mon Oct 6th, 2008 13:26 |
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RegUS_PatOff wrote: The Timer Motor sometimes gets it's Neutral line from the Speed Control Board, other times, it connects itself to the Neutral line.
During the dashed lines, it conects itself to the Neutral, and should run unless the Timer Motor is bad.
Thanks for that... goes to show why they want you to have the timer pulled out on heavy wash for initial tests at the plugs etc.
Tom
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 20:59 |
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Recap; Lost tumble and spin after power surge
Replaced speed control board 10/03/2008 when I found the circuit board fuse open, after that, Timer not moving, no spin even when placed manually on spin cycle position, motor does do tumble action since new speed control install.
Okay, following the flow chart on page 47;
Under...Timer does not advance
1. Set the timer to the start of the heavy wash cycle.
2. Allow the washer to operate for 3 minutes.
3. Then measure the voltage drop between pin 5 of the ten pin plug on the speed control board and pin 5 of the six pin plug on the speed control board.
120volts = Defective speed control board
0 volts= Defective timer
After 3 minutes timer did not move and I had 120V reading
Can this be a faulty NEW speed control playing games with me?
However, one thing I can't tell from the test instructions..
I left the plugs ON the board and measured from the back side so as not to interupt normal operation. It does not indicate otherwise, is this correct test proceedure?
NOTE; In addition.....after that I also did a "not in the book" test by removing the timer and running 120V directly to the timer motor wires on the bench... and it runs just fine at a normal speed.
Thanks for any Help , another wash day is on the way.
Tom
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RegUS_PatOff
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 21:19 |
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Will B. Fixed wrote:
... After 3 minutes timer did not move and I had 120V reading
Can this be a faulty NEW speed control playing games with me? ...
did it move during the first 3 minutes ?
yes, could be faulty new board...
Yes, leave the plugs on...
From the Timimg Chart, it looks like the Timer motor is controlled by the Motor Speed Control Board during the first 3 minutes (did it move) , then the Timer contacts control it for the next 3 minutes, and so on.
Try turning the Timer Dial to 3 minutes past the start of the Heavy Wash to see if it runs by itself for a while.
GLTF1040AS0 Wiring Diagram
Last edited on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 21:25 by RegUS_PatOff
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 22:07 |
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Sorry, I should have said "timer did not move in the 3 minutes" , poor choice of wording on my part.
Although, I'm not so sure just how far the hash mark on the timer knob should move in 3 minutes, should that be at the second mark on the panel ?
Thanks for hanging in there with me on this one..
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RegUS_PatOff
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 22:32 |
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not sure, but if you could watch the actual Timer Motor as you slowly turn the Dial till is starts turning by itself.
and then unplug washer, disconnect the Motor Speed Control, plug washer back in, and see if the Timer Motor still moves at that position
Last edited on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 22:35 by RegUS_PatOff
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 23:04 |
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Can do, will take the timer back out and put plugs back in on top of the washer so I can see the motor gears then follow your test.
At least it feels like I'm moving forward at this point, which is a good thing... thanks
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 00:49 |
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RegUS_PatOff wrote: not sure, but if you could watch the actual Timer Motor as you slowly turn the Dial till is starts turning by itself.
and then unplug washer, disconnect the Motor Speed Control, plug washer back in, and see if the Timer Motor still moves at that position
Okay, did that and found the timer will run on it's own without being hooked up to the speed control when on that dial setting.
But new twist, timer ran at start of heavy cycle too, and also after I moved the dial to next notch.. acting like it want's to work either on the speed contol OR on it's own now.
Wanted to see if I could get it to spin, but no doubt will not go into spin unless you have it loaded with wet clothes as it must know when it's empty etc. Is that right ?
At any rate, it doesn't want to spin either by letting the timer run, or moving the dial to "spin" at this point. but does still tumble.
I feel like I should put the cabinet back together and hook up the water to see what it will do. Not sure why I'm seeing timer movement everywhere on the dial now.
What do you think now?
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Budget Appliance Repair
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 10:08 |
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Should go into high speed spin empty. You still have a problem somewhere. Have you check the door switch/lock assembly, it can cause these kinds of problems.
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 16:04 |
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Budget Appliance Repair wrote: Should go into high speed spin empty. You still have a problem somewhere. Have you check the door switch/lock assembly, it can cause these kinds of problems.
Thanks for the extra help..
Yes, the door switch and wire were checked in the initial testing of voltage between pins 5 to 6 on the harness side of the six pin plug from the speed control board. That read 120V which indicated switch and wire were good.
Plus the diagnostic flow chart does not call for a test of the door switch for "no spin" when you have "tumble" action.
Please do not read me as anything but grateful for your help, only answering in a way as to not confuse matters more.
Tom
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 21:15 |
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| Flow chart can be misleading(long story). Speed control board sends signal to timer to advance. This signal voltage is short lived and cannot be read with a digital meter. Connect analog meter to C6.6 and C10.5. Start the washer in Normal cycle and keep a close eye on the meter for the signal to advance. You will get stare crazy but the needle movement that occurs when the signal voltage is sent from the speed control board to the timer only lasts a second or two and if you're not watching closely you will miss the movement. You can use the cycle chart that is with the wiring diagram that USReg posted to get an idea when the speed control board is going to send a voltage signal to the timer to advance. If no signal is detected, then return the board and get a replacement. If signal is detected and timer doesn't advance, then replace the timer.
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 01:15 |
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Decided before I get into watching for needle twitches on a VOM I'd button it up and see what it's doing at this point.
Started it on heavy wash
Timer advanced on it's own from that setting
Just past the "light wash" hash mark, it pumped water IN at the same time it pumped water OUT, lasted longer than the 2mins and didn't seem correct so I moved it ahead by just 3 little clicks
It then pumped out the water as it did slow spin twice, followed by a fast spin
Then started pumping IN more rinse water
About 3/4 of the way between "light Wash" & "Final Spin" hash mark it seem to stall again. Lost track of the exact time, but seemed longer than any times on chart
I moved it ahead by 4 small clicks and it started to pump the water out
It was still trying to pump water out past 3 mins so I moved the knob ahead by just one click
Started to fill with next rinse for just over one minute and tumble started on it's own
After 4 minutes had to move ahead by hand one click
Started to pump water out with tumble action for 2 minutes
Fast spin started on it's own for 10 minutes
Dropped down to back and forth tumble for 2 1/2 minutes
Sounded the buzzer and unlocked the door.
Now, If we can just figure out why the timer is stalling at those points it would be a big step closer to fixed.
Any new thoughts now?
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 02:01 |
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| Guess that didn't trigger any new thoughts on the problem with anyone... seemed like it should.
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Will B. Fixed
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Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 19:04 |
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Well...... at this point the machine has a new speed controller AND a new timer unit and it still will not advance through the cycles properly.
Test today after new timer install;
Starting at "Quick wash" on "whites" it will fill and tumble wash just fine
Then sticks on rinse where it will just set and fill at the same time it pumps water out without any tumble.
I move it ahead by hand a slight bit and it goes to rinse and tumble for 4 mins
Then it will go on to first spin on it's own
This first spin was fast and stuck on for 15mins until I turned machine off.
I'm still thinking I got a defective speed control and there is nothing wrong with my timer.
Anyone?
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