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Staber Fan
Apprentice Appliantologist
| Joined: | Tue Apr 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| Flavorite Brew: | Coconut Milk |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 13:50 |
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Hi everybody,
My family and I just bought a farm house here in southern Connecticut. The two-story house was built in 1880 and is about 1900 square feet without any insulation whatsoever. The 40 year old oil-fired boiler is a monster with two zones and an old type of baseboard, not radiators. I want to replace this unit with a new oil-fired boiler and I have read all the related posts but would like to clarify a few things.
1). What is the single highest quality oil-fired boiler currently made? Does not need to have the highest AFUE.
2). How many zones are the most efficient? Currently it is a two-zone but would adding more zones improve efficiency and if so, how many is too many?
You guys (and gals) have been great answering my questions in the past, thanks again!
MarkLast edited on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 13:52 by Staber Fan
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TOPPS Appliance Service
Master Appliantologist
| Joined: | Fri Aug 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | Toledo, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| Flavorite Brew: | Iced Tea |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 15:20 |
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Staber Fan wrote: Hi everybody,
My family and I just bought a farm house here in southern Connecticut. The two-story house was built in 1880 and is about 1900 square feet without any insulation whatsoever. The 40 year old oil-fired boiler is a monster with two zones and an old type of baseboard, not radiators. I want to replace this unit with a new oil-fired boiler and I have read all the related posts but would like to clarify a few things.
1). What is the single highest quality oil-fired boiler currently made? Does not need to have the highest AFUE.
2). How many zones are the most efficient? Currently it is a two-zone but would adding more zones improve efficiency and if so, how many is too many?
You guys (and gals) have been great answering my questions in the past, thanks again!
Mark
First thing you need to do is INSULATE! New Windows and doors won't hurt either.
Then run a heat loss calc [manual J] because the current unit will be far too oversized. You can do this yourself.
http://hvaccomputer.com/talkref.asp
I think it is $49 for homeowner, but fairly simple to use
As far as zones go, I've seen up to six in one unit. But it is good business to split the pumps!
Last edited on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 15:21 by TOPPS Appliance Service
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Staber Fan
Apprentice Appliantologist
| Joined: | Tue Apr 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| Flavorite Brew: | Coconut Milk |
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Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 00:39 |
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Last Saturday I had a local contractor do a walk-thru of the house. I wrote up a "scope of work" for him and specified the Buderus GB125BE boiler.
Insulation is an over hyped building component and is not as important as some may believe. Proper house positioning on a building lot with smart landscaping and a well designed radiant heating system is far more important than blown-in insulation (that most likely won't pack right) and "new" windows!
Has anyone had any feedback or knowledge about this new boiler from Buderus?Last edited on Fri Oct 17th, 2008 00:39 by Staber Fan
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RegUS_PatOff
Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
| Joined: | Sat Sep 24th, 2005 |
| Location: | Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 3861 |
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Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 03:33 |
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Staber Fan wrote: ... Insulation is an over hyped building component and is not as important as some may believe...
Where did you hear that from... ?
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Skeeter
Master Appliantologist
| Joined: | Tue Apr 12th, 2005 |
| Location: | Conyers, Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
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Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 04:51 |
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Staber Fan wrote:
Insulation is an over hyped building component and is not as important as some may believe.
Did your contractor tell you that? Just wondering...
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TOPPS Appliance Service
Master Appliantologist
| Joined: | Fri Aug 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | Toledo, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| Flavorite Brew: | Iced Tea |
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Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 13:57 |
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Staber Fan wrote: Last Saturday I had a local contractor do a walk-thru of the house. I wrote up a "scope of work" for him and specified the Buderus GB125BE boiler.
Insulation is an over hyped building component and is not as important as some may believe. Proper house positioning on a building lot with smart landscaping and a well designed radiant heating system is far more important than blown-in insulation (that most likely won't pack right) and "new" windows!
Has anyone had any feedback or knowledge about this new boiler from Buderus?
Very misinformed indeed!
1) Heat always flows to coldest objects first [this is physics]. If you visualize this, you can see why a larger btu/h system would be needed for a less insulated home. Most of your btu's will be directed towards the coldest of objects [windows, doors, and walls]. Hence; Larger heat loss=larger btu/h=larger consumption=larger bills
2) we're are not talking wind infiltration [Proper house positioning on a building lot with smart landscaping] We're talking ambient & latent!!!
3) There is a free trial on that program. Play with it! Do one with no insulation and poor windows, then change it to a well insulated structure & notice the btu loss differential!
4) The next time a contractor comes in your house and feeds you that line of crap, show him/her to the door.
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TOPPS Appliance Service
Master Appliantologist
| Joined: | Fri Aug 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | Toledo, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| Flavorite Brew: | Iced Tea |
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Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 14:06 |
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BTW,
The Buderus GB125BE boiler is a great choice.
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Moostafa
The Ayatollah of Appliance Repair
| Joined: | Sat Apr 2nd, 2005 |
| Location: | Afghanistan |
| Posts: | 538 |
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Posted: Sat Oct 18th, 2008 01:23 |
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Staber Fan wrote: Insulation is an over hyped building component and is not as important as some may believe. Proper house positioning on a building lot with smart landscaping and a well designed radiant heating system is far more important than blown-in insulation (that most likely won't pack right) and "new" windows!
Hello, my over-hyped friend. I must completely concur with you on your wise assessment of insulation. This obsession with insulation is a purely Western phenomenon. Here, in my rugged and mountainous Afghanistan, where it gets bitterly cold in winter with howling winds and snow driven horizontally, we live in a yak skin tent. I have four young and nubile wives and a herd of long-hair yaks. Ahh, many a long winter night we've all spent huddled together, under our yak skins, no need to get up and visit the haram ka'ab (or, "latrine," as you Ameedicans would say). It is a very, ahh, organic lifestyle, no? Yes?
Indeed, my Staber-loving friend, I would humbly submit for your consideration that it is precisely this presence of insulation in Ameedican homes which causes you, as a culture, to separate from each other. And you feel alone. This is not what Allah, the Compassionate and Merciful, intended for us. Let us turn to the most holy and pure words of the Qu'ran:
لما فتح الله على نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم خيبر أصابه من سهمه أربعة أزواج نعال وأربعة أزواج خفاف وعشر أواق ذهب وفضة وحمار أسود، ومكتل قال: فكلم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم الحمار، فكلمه الحمار، فقال له: "ما اسمك؟" قال: يزيد بن شهاب، أخرج الله من نسل جدي ستين حمارا، كلهم لم يركبهم إلا نبي لم يبق من نسل جدي غيري ولا من الأنبياء غيرك، وقد كنت أتوقعك أن تركبني قد كنت قبلك لرجل يهودي، وكنت أعثر به عمدا وكان يجيع بطني ويضرب ظهري، فقال له النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: "قد سميتك يعفورا، يا يعفور" قال: لبيك. قال "أتشتهي الإناث؟" قال: لا فكان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يركبه لحاجته فإذا نزل عنه بعث به إلى باب الرجل، فيأتي الباب فيقرعه برأسه، فإذا خرج إليه صاحب الدار أومأ إليه أن أجب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، فلما قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم جاء إلى بئر كان لأبي الهيثم بن التيهان فتردى فيها فصارت قبره، جزعا منه على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم راجع البداية و النهاية لإبن كثير .. باب حديث الحمار
Alhamdulillah.
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Allahu Akbar!
Moostafa
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dkpd1581
Sublime Master of Appliantology
| Joined: | Sun Dec 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Atlanta, Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 01:27 |
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I would listen to TOPPS. Just look at the industry authority on the matter ACCA Manual J Residential Load Calculation page 9 section 1-4 Building Losses. Here is what it says (an HVAC Top 3 list if you will):
A. Heat loss through glass windows and doors by conduction.
B. Heat loss through solid doors by conduction.
C. Heat loss through walls exposed to outdoor temperatures or through walls below grade.
Heat transfer multipliers are an indication of how much heat (in BTUS/hr per every square foot of material) is passed from inside a warmer home to a colder outdoor temp. Assuming a 70F indoor temperature and a modest 40F outdoor temp (mild indeed) here are some numbers for a single pane window without and with a simple storm window - not a big cost investment.
Realize that CT has a design outdoor Winter temperature of 7-9F (a 63-61F temperature difference @ a 70F Indoor temp)
ACCA Manual J Residential Load Calculation
TABLE 2 page 65
Single pane wood frame clear glass =
29.7 btuh/sq ft @ 30F TD (64.4 btu/sq ft @ 65F TD)
Single pane wood frame clear glass and storm =
14.3 btuh/sq ft @ 30F TD (30.9 btuh/sq ft @ 65F TD)
I only went to Government schools; however, you have at least a 50% reduction in heat loss through the windows alone with just well installed storm windows. That is for EVERY SQUARE FOOT OF EVERY WINDOW in your house.
As to the waste of insulating walls, lets cruise over a few pages - same book, same table.
TABLE 2 page 68
Wood frame exterior wall no insulation and 1/2" Gypsum Brd =
8.1 btuh/sq ft @ 30F TD (17.6 btuh/sq ft @ 65F TD)
Wood frame exterior as above with R-11 in cavity 1/2" Gyp Brd=
2.7 btuh/sq ft @ 30F TD (5.8 btuh/ sq ft @ 65F TD)
Remember I went to Government school so you all do the math.
Just a thought.
Rock on TOPPS!!
Last edited on Mon Oct 20th, 2008 02:08 by dkpd1581
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