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Professional opion on Supco RCO410 3 n '1  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Mon Jan 8th, 2007 06:08 pm
   
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OAR
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Hi, I originally posted this question and then went back and deleted the entire text after the discussion got going.  I dunno, guess I'm still figuring out forum etiquette.  Please excuse me.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 8th, 2007 11:16 pm
   
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richapplianceguy

 

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All the newer refrigerators I have worked on have much smaller compressors than the ones used prior to say the year 1995.
 The use of a 3n1 hard start relay was used extensively with no problem at that time.
 Now with the use of smaller compressors requires a more accurate control of the start winding inrush current.
 The klixon thermal cutout mounted on the side of the compressor provides this. It prevents excessive current and temperatures.
 The 3n1 kits do not as they are not engineered for each compressor requirement but are a "fits all" unit.
 I can explain further if needed.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 9th, 2007 12:21 am
   
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richapplianceguy

 

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I presently use the ro41 relay/overload combination and wire in the run capacitor if used in that refrigerator. This I now regard as a temporary fix.
 I plan in the future to order the factory ptc relay and overload once the fix is measured to be successful.
 Any start problems at all will be considered a damaged start winding=new compressor time.
 

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 Posted: Tue Jan 9th, 2007 12:31 am
   
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Dr. Freeze
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be very carefull using the ro41 combos as they get extremly hot and can be come a possible fire haszard.

try to mount to metal bracket on compressor



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 Posted: Tue Jan 9th, 2007 12:32 am
   
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Dr. Freeze
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3n1's will take out electronics if the fridge is equiped with electronic contols!!!!!!!!!!



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 Posted: Tue Jan 9th, 2007 02:22 pm
   
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richapplianceguy

 

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Did some calculations and find most compressors are between 1/5 to 1/4 HP. There is no relay/overload  combo sold in this range at lest in my cataloge. So most people pick the 1/4-1/3 HP device to avoid starting problems.
  Any opinion??
 

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 Posted: Tue Jan 9th, 2007 10:32 pm
   
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stumpowitz



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As posted in a section not readily available to Apprentices...
(Pay special attention to underlined sections)



THIS in an important technical bulletin regarding the use of hard-start kits on Electrolux products specifically and to alert technicians to the risk when installing any hard-start kit.The use of hard-start kits on Electrolux refrigeration products has resulted in several reported fires inside the machine compartment. Long-term use of a hard-start kit where the compressor is pulling well over the maximum allowable amperage can cause the hard-start kit to overheat and melt. Compressors, when operated from a test cord and checked with a wattmeter or amp test meter, found to be pulling over the rated current listed on the data sheet, should not have a hardstart kit installed to force the compressor ro run. This is not safe! In addition, a field technician is not doing the consumer a favor in the long term by leaving the hard-start kit installed and advising that the unit is somehow “fixed.” If you encounter a compressor that’s not starting on its own (relay and overload) start package, test the compressor with a test cord to determine if it’s running at or below its rating. If you determine that you need a new start package and the correct package isn’t available, a hard-start kit may be used for a few days to accommodate the customer and get the refrigerator cooling. However, do not permanently replace the OEM start package with a hard-start kit. Here’s some basic information: 1. When the compressor is pulling over 200 watts but below 400 watts on the test cord, the compressor may be failing or you may have a very high head pressure. You will need to tap into the sealed system. 2. If you have normal pressure and high current, the compressor is failing — replace the compressor. 3. When there is high head pressure, there may be a restriction or air in the system caused by a low-side leak. 4. If the compressor is pulling over 400 watts, it should be replaced. Again, installing a hard-start kit at this high current draw will allow both the wiring in the refrigerator and the hardstart kit to overheat — not a good thing



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 Posted: Thu Jan 18th, 2007 11:34 am
   
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richapplianceguy

 

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In addition to the 3n1 problems the use of a run capacitor is necessary. Must splice in the run capacitor even if a temporary fix!
 The run capacitor provides additional start torque to the compressor when starting and provides additional  run torque when running.

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 Posted: Fri Jan 19th, 2007 03:52 am
   
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OAR
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Thanks yall, think I'll keep the 3in1's for the old stuff~



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 Posted: Fri Jan 19th, 2007 04:37 am
   
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Poobah
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This link has some very good info about the 3n1.  The posts by Nickfixit and Crouching Tiger are especially good. 

The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > ge frig wiring starter relay (31 replies - 980 views)



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 Posted: Fri Jan 19th, 2007 09:18 pm
   
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Skiter29

 

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I use the Maytag Part #12555902 relay for ref from about 1992 till present you can put the capcitor right on this relay without wiring it in it just snaps on and if your compressor dosnt need a capcitor this will also work

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 Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 01:17 am
   
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Poobah
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I stock and use the Whirlpool one that has the 2 seperate overloads and the relay....



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 Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 01:18 am
   
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Poobah
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I use the Whirpool one that has the 2 seperate overloads and the relay

sorry for the double post

Last edited on Sat Jan 20th, 2007 01:19 am by Poobah



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 Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 10:19 am
   
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richapplianceguy

 

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Need part numbers. Are these one size fits all?? Need specs on PTC relay.  I usually retain the original overload,unless bad and replace PTC only.
 Would never use universal ptc/overload device.

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 Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 02:02 pm
   
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Poobah
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I couldn't remember the part # last night .........kit #8201799.  2  overloads and relay..........overload #2162218  in the kit is for  20-22 cubic ft.......2187145 is for 25-27 cubic ft models.  Used this for years with great success.  I also keep one of the old  Frigidaire style ones in the black plastic box where the capacitor sits on top.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 02:15 pm
   
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nickfixit
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This was my standard answer on the 3-in-1. It was in reply to someone who believed it was a good permanent fix, not a temporary repair. Plus he wasn't wiring in the run capacitor.

The link in Poobahs' post has some good stuff in it. We have taken on the 3-in-1 issue a few times in the past.

 

Well..

For starters you have removed the run capacitor from many compressors that were made to have them.

Secondly, all those compressors you serviced no longer have over-temperature protection.

Third, you have added a start capacitor to compressors that were not designed to have one.

Fourth, you may have made the unit draw more amperage than it was designed to handle.

Fifth, when one of these does fail, the next tech may refuse to honor the compressor warranty, and blame you for using an non-approved part.

The factory relays are just as cheap and easy to install as any 3-in-1 part.

Nick



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 Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 02:25 pm
   
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Poobah
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I found this diging online one day that tells how to read the codes on the ptc and what the values are...hope this can be of help to someone.....

http://www.sensata.com/files/4tm.pdf



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 Posted: Sun Jan 21st, 2007 05:54 pm
   
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richapplianceguy

 

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Right on nickfixit. In many cases the 3n1 er. has denied his customer AND himself the fact that the compressor has damaged start windings and the compressor will probably fail soon.=One pissed off customer and general loss of confidence in his/her professionalism and reduced confidence.
 It is allways best to do the "safe" repair and keep customer informed with real information based on measurements.
 

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 Posted: Sun Jan 21st, 2007 06:01 pm
   
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richapplianceguy

 

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Right on nickfixit. In many cases the 3n1 er has denied the customer AND himself the knowledge the compressor has damaged start windings and will soon fail=pissed off customer and greatly reduced confidence of repair capability.
 In a small town this could be serious!!

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 Posted: Sun Jan 21st, 2007 06:16 pm
   
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richapplianceguy

 

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Sorry for the repeat,server really malfunction!!

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